Plug-in hybrids one little detail: The smart grid

Tag : Communication Charger

at 7/21/2008 10:09:26 AM, Paul Rako said:
While you are at it ask him if they will use power factorcorrection and can the electric grid actually support all the carspulling 2kw for 8 hours straight. Transformers like to cool down atnight so they should be catching fire all over town. Also ask howmany homeowners have the 200 amp service a PHEV needs.

at 7/21/2008 3:03:25 PM, Gizmonic Man said:
Paul, try not to be TOO overly optimistic about PHEVs--you'll ruinyour image as a loveable but curmudgeonly engineer.

at 7/21/2008 3:12:10 PM, Dreamer in Austin Texas said:
Lets think about the possibility of covered parking that iscomprised of thin film solar that is able to feed the energy intothe cars parked below ? I realize that the portion of power thatthin films solar may be able to produce will not directly fill upthe PHEV but any offset from clean renewable energy has to be aplus.

at 7/21/2008 3:52:21 PM, FutureBoy said:
It seems to me that we need to double the line voltage of ourcountry if we realistically want to handle the power demand. Do anannouncement over the next 10 years stating this transition WILLtake place and move from 110 to 220 like the rest of the world.Shoot, many of our products already support this range.

at 7/21/2008 4:30:26 PM, BlowEmUp said:
1. FutureBoy's suggestion reminds me of one a few years ago: in1967 Sweden changed from driving on the left to driving on theright. It was soon suggested that this should also be done inBritain, but gradually: Lorries and motorcycles would switch oneweekend, and autos the following weekend. For some reason this wasnever implemented. (Most of my electronics would not mind thesuggested change, but washer, dryer, the "major"appliances are nominal 120 vac, usually 50/60 hz.) 2. PG&E is"offering" a contorl module for my AC compressor so theycan control it during power alerts. A similar feature on thehybrid's charger could control recharging based on the grid'soperability.

at 7/21/2008 8:09:48 PM, Ian Levine said:
It seems like a lot the concerns and problems over load levelingcould be solved by bringing the market forces down to theresidential level. The utility would have the ability to transmitrate tiers in real time that triggered different metering in theutility and was available both for automation or simple display formanual intervention. How much the the rates changed and whether abase level at nominal rates was allowed would be up to themarketing folks. Either way, this would provide a way to pass onhigh spot market rates and let people decide whether they want touse expensive electricity or cheap electricity and pay for it. Inthe EHV example, a cheap model would charge immediately when youplugged it in and someone who wanted to save money would need towait until the rate went down and then plug it in. A more expensivemodel could be plugged in a programmed to start charging when a setcost tier was advertised by the utility. Both systems would let thecar owner pay a premium to charge at a peak time if they need toturn around and drive again or top off for a trip that exceeds thatcar's range.

at 7/21/2008 9:00:20 PM, Jon said:
Are "GREEN" power PHEV's really all that green. I've beenposing this question to everyone I can think of and I haven't hearda straight answer yet: 49% of our electrical power is produced byburning coal and 71% is produced from coal, petrol, natural, andother gases, all are non-renewable, and most aren't"green" for their lack of renewability and/or theby-products from their combustion; furthermore because there arealways inefficiencies during energy conversion can you compare thetotal system efficiency of a theoretical all PHEV-world versus ourcurrent model? As an extension of that question, can you prove thatby moving to PHEV's that we will produce less"green-house" gases than we already produce? First, Ireally don't believe in anthropomorphic climate change. We couldn'tchange the climate if we put our every resource to it short ofcreating a nuclear winter. Second, we have to realize that whereverwe get our energy from we are taking it from something else thatlikely needs it as well. Gore says we can power the worlkd for ayear with what hits the earth in 40 minutes from the sun (which Idon't for one second believe), yet if we were to do that think ofall the plants that go without those sun's rays, all the aquaticlife that will miss it, then think about all the life that thrivesin darkness and how they'll over-populate. If you're about to say"yea, right, we could never make that big an impact" thenI rebut: "that's exactly what they said when we decided fossilfuels were the way to go." It all looks like a drop in thebucket in the beginning, then someone will come and say it's a hugehole in the ozone later. I'm all for shifting our energy sources,but we need to be intelligent about it. I'd bet dollars todoughnuts that PHEV's are going to make things worse. Lithium-ionbatteries don't last worth anything in heat, which they will see inany vehicle, let alone poor charging conditions, which they willsee from the layman user. Further inefficiencies from all thoseconversions from coal to AC to DC to battery storage that will losecapacity, to motors etc can NOT be as efficient as the internalcombustion engine from the Watts in gas to the Watts driving thewheels. They've already proven that if you're not in stop-and-gotraffic a HEV is LESS efficient than its all-combustion brother:the added weight and systems that go unused drag the ICE down morethan running the AC with your windows open with your left foot onthe brake, your transmission in low and a screwdriver through theside of your gas tank (okay, exaggeration, but then so is 40minutes of sun lighting the world and driving its energy needs fora whole year!)

at 7/21/2008 10:06:56 PM, DVanditmars said:
Well I already have my very own GM Volt Tshirt, (now waiting forthe actual car). I think what may be on horizon is for the chargersof PHEVs will need to communicate with the electrical grid to allowfor load shedding as required. For me, the car will be plugged inwhen I get home after work and should start recharging after thedinner surge. This could be just a simple timer, or could becontrolled by the electrical grid, (hopefully at some discountedrate). Either case the power draw needs to be managed by somemethod.

at 7/22/2008 7:15:16 AM, EV'er in ABQ said:
Paul Rako said: Transformers like to cool down at night...I find ithard to believe they're not rated for 100% duty cycle at ratedoutput. ...how many homeowners have the 200 amp service a PHEVneeds... I charged my BEV every night for several years in a 50year old home that had a 60A service. It didn't draw any more thanan electric clothes dryer. A PHEV would be much less, with it'scorrespondingly smaller battery pack and could likely be rechargedfrom a 110 outlet. One possible solution to all cars charging atonce might be accomplished with a program similar to one offered bymy local utility, the "Power Saver". Amounts to a radiocontrol connected to your A/C unit (or EV/PHEV charger) so they canremotely regulate the usage during peak periods. Additionally,chargers could be programmable to interface with time of usemetering or simple delayed activation during non-peak periods.

at 7/22/2008 1:33:53 PM, hoistdoctor said:
Jon is right on. How can you possibly go through the energyconversions and expect to be efficient? Global climate change,holes in the ozone layer, CFL mercury poisoning....all BS!!

at 7/22/2008 1:47:08 PM, rap said:
My clothes dryers and ranges have ALWAYS used 220 volt power. I'venever seen them run on only 110 VAC.

at 7/22/2008 3:02:41 PM, meg said:
responding to dreamer in Austin. Plus the shade from parking underthin film trellises would cool the cars, the environment andyes...add some power.

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